Designing a Career – and Life – You Love; A Conversation with Dr. Whitney D. Weiner

Intro: This is The Thriving Dentist Show with Gary Takacs, where we help you develop your ideal dental practice, one that provides personal, professional, and financial satisfaction.

Gary Takacs: Welcome to another episode of The Thriving Dentist Show. I’m Gary Takacs, your podcast co-host. We have an awesome episode for you today. Those of you that are regular listeners of the Thriving Dentist Show know that I like to mix up the format, and we do that to keep it interesting for you. So this is going to be an interview format with a wonderful friend of mine, Dr. Whitney Weiner. Uh, Whitney, thank you for joining us today on the Thriving Dentist Show. Welcome.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Thank you, Gary. I am so excited to be here. I really appreciate the invite.

Gary Takacs: Yeah, I, I can’t wait to get into this great conversation. Uh, before I do that, though, a quick announcement to make. Um, those of you that are regular listeners know that at the Thriving Dentist Show, we routinely do virtual events. We do webinars, we do panel discussions. Um, we put on these virtual events as a way to make, uh, more advanced discussion and education available for our listeners. Um, we offer these virtual events at no cost. Uh, there’s no tuition for you. We do that as in appreciation for your listenership. If you’d like to find out when the next virtual event is, go to thrivingdentist.com/events,  and you’ll see the next one on the calendar. So check that periodically and come join us. Um, many of the events provide CE, um, and again, it’s probably the best value in CE since there’s no cost. Uh, but even more important than that, you’ll learn, uh, useful things you can apply in your practice the next day.

Gary Takacs: Well, anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming. Uh, Whitney, you and I have had the chance to get to know each other, uh, in, in the last little while. And, uh, I, and I’m very excited to be working with you, uh, as well. But, you know, I know many of our listeners will recognize your name. Um, and many will know you. But there will be listeners that are hearing about you for the first time. Would you be kind enough to share a little bit of your background, um, with our listeners?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Of course. Gary, thank you again. I’m honored to be your partner and excited to be here today. So, uh, my name is Whitney Weiner. I am a periodontist by training. First and foremost, I see myself as a mother to three zesty and flavorful boys, and a partner to the love of my life, Elliot. But if we were to rewind, Gary, to the origin story—born and raised in Cedar Rapids, Iowa—go Hawkeyes. Um, I went to Colorado College for undergrad, a really fond liberal arts school that happened to be at the base of the mountains. So a lot of, uh, epic powder days. I know we share a love for skiing and surfing, so that was a lot of fun. And then typical, you know, couldn’t decide—med school, dental school—pre-med student. Um, so thankful that I decided to go into dentistry. I wanted to take a moment to say that to all your listeners.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: What an incredible profession that we are in. I’m so honored to be a dentist and so thankful as a mom that I chose this profession. But I took a year to play. I, uh, I convinced my parents I was gonna become fluent in Spanish and backpack Central America, and then I was a ski instructor before going back to Iowa Dental School, which was a tremendous, tremendous education. The hands-on content there and the, the wraparound service with didactic and all of it was just magical. So I’m a huge Hawkeye fan. And then went straight into residency at University of Illinois in Chicago. Great clinical program. Had a lot of fun in Chicago as well. And then launched in private practice. So two years in Australia. I was the first periodontist just south of Sydney. Uh, again, not, not keeping up with you on those waves, but having a lot of fun surfing down there while working really hard, and then moved back to Detroit and, uh, was an associate periodontist before launching Whole Dental Wellness.

Gary Takacs: Wow. Uh, you know, you and I share many things in, in common. Our, uh, our passion for dentistry. You know, I, I like to say that dentistry rocks, and I truly believe that. And I know our listeners believe that, too. Heck, they’re listening to a podcast on their own time, so we know exactly.

Gary Takacs: I wish every dentist in the profession believed that dentistry rocks, but I believe it because we have the opportunity to change people’s lives every day. And it could be something we do clinically, could be something we do behaviorally. Uh, and, you know, your work as a, as a period… So I’m, I’m interested in a detail. Why did you choose to become a periodontist?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: You know, it’s a great question, Gary. When I went into dentistry, I always thought I’d be a plastic surgeon. I loved surgery. So when I decided to go to dental school, I shadowed a periodontist and an oral surgeon. I thought, ha, that could be me. Like, I really love that. I love the intricacy of using your hands and surgery. And then also, for me, it was the right risk, you know, versus being like a cardiac surgeon or a plastic surgeon. So I was so excited to go into that, and specifically periodontics versus oral surgery, because I love people and I love that long-term relationship. And so for me, being able to see those patients every three months, getting to know them, getting to know their families, really tracked with me—similar to general dentistry—but afforded me the opportunity to still be doing surgery with my hands every day.

Gary Takacs: Wow. What a, what a great, um, kind of, kind of decision-making process, uh, following your interests. Um, and you chose well.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I agree, so thankful.

Gary Takacs: Now, uh, one of the things that we’re gonna talk about today is, um, the ever-elusive, uh, effective work-life balance. Um, and, uh, you know that I’m passionate about helping our listeners achieve an effective work-life balance. But I wanna punctuate something that you said earlier for our listeners. You’re a mom. Um, I, I heard you say that—that you—that was what you consider to be one of your most important callings, of course. Um, three young boys. What are, what are the ages of your boys?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Ten, seven, and five? It’s very vibrant in my household, Gary.

Gary Takacs: Uh, another thing we have in common—I’m the oldest of three boys, um, and a, a similar age difference. I’m the oldest, similar age difference with my brothers. And, uh, I have now, you know, uh, many years later, uh, being a parent of four myself and five grandkids, I have newfound appreciation for what a great, uh, juggler my mother was. Uh, you know, and to juggle all of her responsibilities, uh, along with, uh, you know, raising three boys. So, practice owner—and we’re gonna get into that—and, and actually, I’ll give a sneak preview: multiple location practice owner, mom, three boys. Uh, I know there’ll be some listeners thinking, uh, how in the world does Whitney do it? How does she take the tribe? How do you do it? But I—but part of it, uh, I, I, I have a, a, a wonderful, uh, saying that I learned from one of my mentors, Dr. Omer Reed. Um, and you’ll recognize his name. Our listeners will recognize his name. Uh, Dr. Reed was such a wonderful mentor of mine, uh, early in my career. And one of the things that is imprinted in my mind—he often said, "If it’s been done before, it must be possible."

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I love that.

Gary Takacs: So, there you are. Um, it’s not easy. There’s nothing easy, uh, about, uh, being a, a periodontist, practice owner in multiple locations, mom, uh, a spouse. Um, and we’ll get into your other role in business as well. Um, but, uh, I, I love the example that you’re providing, uh, that it—it can be done, um, but nothing easy about it at all.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I would concur, Gary, and thank you. I, I always say being a mom is my greatest accomplishment. And being a mom makes me a better leader. And then that also is a positive feedback loop. Going to work every day and running our company helps me be a better mom.

Gary Takacs: Yeah. So I wanna talk more about your practice, and, and I kinda let the cat outta the bag—practices. Um, remind our listeners the name, ’cause I love the name—

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Whole Dental Wellness.

Gary Takacs: Wow. Um, that is, uh, an amazing name, uh, for a practice. Um, and, uh, you know that, uh, it’s descriptive. Um, it describes what it’s all about. Uh, so how did you first become a practice… so curious—came back from, uh, Australia, um, and, uh, family ties to the Greater Detroit area?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yes. My husband grew up in Metro Detroit, and he runs a family business here. So I always knew we’d move back to Detroit, and it’s a beautiful place. I’m so thankful to be here. We found a great community here in our little suburb. And, and going back just for a minute, Gary, to Whole Dental Wellness—we were so passionate about making that name. I had so much fun, really, with my friends coming up with that. And the reason is my master’s degree when I was in residency was in genetics, or oral biology—specifically looking at the oral-systemic link and how inflammation ties throughout our body systems. And so Whole Dental Wellness—whole person who lives behind the teeth—you know, we are treating people, not just fixing problems. And so that was the origin story of Whole Dental Wellness. And it’s something that’s, like, near and dear to my heart. So I wanted to just back up for a minute ’cause I always smile when I, when I hear our name. Yeah. Um, but yes, excited to be here. My husband brought me to Detroit, and we’ve been here for just over 10 years now.

Gary Takacs: I’ll, I’ll dispel a myth. Um, our listeners will know that I was born, uh, in Cleveland. Um, my grandparents were Hungarian immigrants. Uh, they immigrated to Cleveland in 1920. Um, and my dad was born there. He never liked the harsh Cleveland winters—you know, the lake-effect snow, the harsh Cleveland winters. Well, they didn’t have, um, uh, the internet back then. Uh, but my dad looked up, uh, in Farmer’s Almanac—I think of Farmer’s Almanac as like the print version of the internet. And so he looked up in Farmer’s Almanac, where is the weather the opposite of Cleveland in the United States in the winter? And apparently what Farmer’s Almanac told them was San Diego. So we moved to San Diego when I was 10. And so I was forever grateful for that move. And I started surfing when I was 10, and forever grateful for that move. But a lot of people are thinking, oh my God, if they hear Cleveland, if they hear Detroit, they think urban decay. And, and they think, you know, uh, you can’t go outside without being accosted. And, uh, in fact, there are some beautiful areas of Detroit. There’s some beautiful areas of Cleveland. So let’s go ahead and dispel that myth right now.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: 100%. Go Lions. Detroit, all heart, all grit. It’s a beautiful place. I would encourage all listeners to come check us out.

Gary Takacs: And the grit—I like, because the same thing, you think of Clevelanders. Uh, you know, Cleveland is a blue-collar, working-class town. Um, I mean, there’s plenty of, of people that, uh, of, of, of different backgrounds that live in Cleveland, but it’s largely a blue-collar, working-class town. Uh, and Greater Detroit is similar. Uh, and there’s a, there’s a lot of grit and, uh, you know, grit can be good.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Grit’s amazing. It’s an important life skill.

Gary Takacs: You bet. So, so start, uh, start with, um, the, the background story and the pathway to become a practice owner. Um, when you came back from Australia, was it a decision that you made that, hey, I, I wanna own something?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah. So in Australia, I worked as the first periodontist just south of Sydney. I would shuffle up and down the LOR coast, you know, really meeting referrals and getting to know people and learning the nuts and bolts of business. So I built my own website there. I went out, marketed myself, and built something which was fairly lucrative before moving back. We moved back because I was lucky enough to get pregnant there. So I moved back to Michigan three weeks before giving birth to my first son, Jake. So, you know, really Gary, when we were moving back, I knew I wanted to be an owner, and I met with all the periodontists in town, looking to see, you know, what would a partnership look like, because I’m not from the area. And as a specialist, so many relationships are just absolutely critical to building your business model.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: You know, if I went back to Iowa or Chicago, I had a deep network, but I was new in Detroit. And so I associated for a year and a half. I had a partnership that didn’t work out. I learned a ton from it, and I really just spent six months—I was lucky enough that I could do that, my husband supported me in that effort—to really start studying the market and deciding that I wanted to build a group practice. And the reason behind that was, I—being a periodontist—so much of what we do is fix problems and complications. And that’s an honor, and it’s a big part of our profession, especially with peri-implantitis and complications related to that. I wish titanium healed as well as bone, but alas, there’s not the same vascular supply. So, you know, learning from that—just like in any profession, there’s good dentists, there’s bad dentists, and there’s everyone in between. And so for me, I think being on the specialist end, I wanted to be able to take control from the jump and have a general dental office built on quality care, patient first, and really scale that throughout our area. So everyone in Metro Detroit knows that if you go to a Whole Dental Wellness location, you’re gonna be treated as a person. You know, you’re gonna get the love and respect that you deserve and the autonomy to make the decision that’s best for you, and then build that with wraparound specialist services.

Gary Takacs: So talk about the scope, uh, within Whole Dental Wellness, um, at your practice. What is the scope of services there?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah, so with Whole Dental, we have two locations. Um, with that, those are general dentistry locations. We do have some specialty services within that location—within both of them. And then also we have Lakeshore Dental Specialists. So Lakeshore Dental Specialists started as a standalone periodontal office—a periodontist like me—that we purchased. And since then, we’ve built it out into endodontics, oral surgery, and IV sedation as well.

Gary Takacs: Oh, very cool. Uh, very cool. Well, uh, okay, if I put you on the spot for a second, Whitney? Of course. A question just popped to my mind. Um, and, you know, for our listeners’ benefit, this is a freewheeling conversation between Whitney and I. Uh, we talked a little bit about some things we want to cover today, but the way I like to do my interviews is just have a wonderful conversation. So this, this popped into my mind. Uh, statistically, most of our listeners are general dentists. Mm-hmm. You know, that’s how it would be, uh, you know, in our profession. But we have all the specialties represented through many listeners as well. But can you give some tips to our general dentist listeners on building great referral relationships with their specialists? So you’re on the other end of that. You’re, you’re representing the specialist side. Um, but I’d love to hear some tips for, uh, our listeners on how they can have just brilliant relationships with their specialists.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I love that question, Gary. And I would say, you know, some of my deepest relationships are with the general dentists that we work with because it’s truly a partnership. And I think it’s going out and finding people that you trust and that you’re okay to share your best cases with and share failures with, because failure is real. And we all do it every day. And it takes a certain vulnerability to be able to say, “Hey, I misstepped here. How can you help me and serve me?” And I think really good specialists will say, “Let me show you some of my failures too,” because we’re all human. And so for me, one of those easy entry points—I’m the director of a Seattle Study Club. I’m a huge believer in Seattle Study Club. I’ve actually—this is the second club that I’ve been the director of. And I think that having those networks and those safe spaces and environments where you can come together in the spirit of collaboration and the spirit of teamwork, and knowing that you’re in a safe space, really helps uplevel dentistry within your local community.

Gary Takacs: Uh, you and I first met—for our listeners’ benefit—you and I first met at a Director’s Summit for Seattle Study Club. And I’m very involved. I’m a featured speaker for Seattle Study Club. I’ve been, been involved since the foundation of Seattle Study Club way back when. Uh, but I love the interdisciplinary approach through Seattle Study Club, and you’re absolutely right. Um, you know, any clinician, um, that says they haven’t made mistakes, uh, is either fibbing or they haven’t done anything.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Agreed. Agreed. And neither one is good. So…

Gary Takacs: Uh, I always love it when brilliant clinicians show their mistakes. Uh, it’s like, “Hey, I did this and learned from it. Now maybe I could help you avoid it.” And, uh, it’s great. You know, I think the way general dentists connect with specialists is different today. Um, you know, this is my 45th year in our amazing profession, but I remember when, uh, it would—you know, there’d be like the lunch circuit. You know, the specialist would go to lunch with the general dentist and, you know, nurture relationship and so on. Today, it’s harder to do that. I’m not saying that isn’t a useful way to do things, but with everyone extended, you know, with life, um, it’s harder to do that. So there’s other ways that we can connect with our specialists today. It doesn’t have to be through lunch or dinner. Uh, any of your favorite ways to connect with your—I know you do the Seattle Study Club and you’re hosting a, you know, a year-round curriculum of CE for them, so you get to see them there. Um, any other ways that you think maybe our listeners could better connect with their specialists?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah. I love the question, Gary. And I would echo that. I think 10 years ago I was going to a lot of lunches and dinners, and now there’s so much more focus on time with the family, which I love. And so it’s, how can we be creative about that? For our Seattle Study Club, like you mentioned, we have a WhatsApp group. It’s great. It’s a great way to keep in touch. And then a lot of general dentists that I’ve just known over the years, they all have my cell phone. For example, I got a text this morning from one of my friends that said, “Hey, do you know a great periodontist in Aurora, you know, in Colorado?” And I was like, “Sure, let me send you a name.” And so I think that it’s just, once you have that trust and you have an abundance mentality, and you realize that you’re all gonna win together, you know, it’s just one of those things where it becomes so organic. The first step I would say to listeners is: go out and meet your specialist.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Let me tell you, as a specialist, I would love a general dentist to call me and want to go out, because so often it’s the specialist—we drop goodies, we stop by the offices, we’re getting to know your team. We know all your front office managers by name, most likely. We know their favorite snacks. Do they like the high-sugar stuff? Are they into wellness? Would they prefer a plant? And so if you’re a general dentist and you reach out to your specialist, let me tell you—it will be memorable. And I think at the heart of so many of us, what we want to do is serve, and dentistry—so many of us come into the profession because we’re helpers. And it’s really fun to have that collaborative spirit and that effort. So I would say pick up the phone, or even better, just drive to our office and say hi.

Gary Takacs: Yeah. Yeah. Great, uh, great suggestions. I think, um, you know, the interdisciplinary approach to care today, uh, is such a great service to our patients. Um, uh, for sure. Um, yeah. You know, I’ll share, um, kind of in the spirit of abundance. Um, you know, I really believe, um, that there’s two broad, uh, mindsets that, uh, all, you know, human beings have. Uh, and the broad ones are, uh, you can be abundance-minded or you can be scarcity-minded.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Exactly.

Gary Takacs: And given the two, I’m gonna pick abundance every day of the week. And this is an example of that. Uh, I have a client that, um, started do—it’s a different specialty, but let me share the story with you. Um, he decided that he was gonna start doing Invisalign, uh, in the practice—aligners. Uh, and he chose Invisalign as his particular, um, aligner provider.

Gary Takacs: But he decided that as he was starting down his journey, he was gonna meet with his orthodontist and tell the orthodontist himself, face-to-face over dinner, that, “Hey, I’m gonna be doing Invisalign. I wanted you to hear it from me, not hear it from the grapevine.” And, uh, my client reported back—the orthodontist said, “Ah, darn it, I can’t pretend that I’m excited about this.” He said, “You’re my biggest referral source.” And my client said, “You know what, I’m committed to being your biggest referral source moving forward.” He said, “No, it’s not gonna happen. You’re gonna be doing some of—” He said, “No, I’m not gonna be doing kids, and I’m gonna have a limited range of what I can treat with Invisalign.”

Gary Takacs: “My diagnostic acumen’s gonna be going up. I’m gonna be seeing more things orthodontically than I’ve ever seen. Um, and I’m committed to being your biggest referral source.” And anyway, long story short, uh, six months later, the orthodontist took him out to dinner and said, “You honored your commitment to be my biggest referral source. You’ve got me thinking about things differently.” He said, “I’m thinking about putting together a very select study club of general dentists in our broad area—this is in a big city—who are interested in doing aligners. And I think that could be a great way for me to help them. Um, and we could pay attention to what cases should go to the orthodontist, what cases maybe aren’t the best cases to be treating with aligners.” Anyway, now this has developed into a really great study club for the orthodontist. And to me, that orthodontist embraces the concept of abundance-minded. The scarcity-minded orthodontist is gonna say, “No, I want all the ortho cases.”

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I love that, Gary. And, and you nailed it. And I think that again—listeners, when you’re going out and finding specialists—those are the specialists that you want. Because it’s not what’s in it for them, it’s what’s in it to support and uplift you. Yeah. So, so many of our general dentists—I’ve actually gone to their offices or driven to their office and done a crown lengthening. You know, I’ll do one on this side, and then you do the left side. Or teaching them how to do extraction and bone graft. And part of that is just, how do we make dentistry better? How do we uplevel, right? How do we continue to expand our sphere of influence within the communities we serve? And when it’s coming from that space and that heartset of, “Let’s all grow and get better together,” again, that’s when we all win.

Gary Takacs: Yeah. You know, it’s in your—it’s in the name of your practice—but it’s also a deep passion of mine, the oral-systemic connection. I wish the public, everyone in the general population, understood the oral-systemic connection.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Mm-hmm.

Gary Takacs: I will say that I believe there’s a lot more public awareness about that now.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I agree.

Gary Takacs: But we still have a lot of work to do. We still have a lot to do with the public in understanding the oral-systemic connection. But I’m excited to hear the things—we even have, you know, an association in dentistry that focuses on the oral-systemic connection and oral-systemic health, which is great. But not everyone in the public still knows that an infection in the gums isn’t just there and isn’t just in their mouth. But that pathogenic bacteria is circulating through the circulatory system and creates all kinds of issues.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Isn’t that laughable? One body, one system, right? Like, we gotta get this out there. I thought when the American Heart Association came out—’cause I think it was almost 10 years ago—and had level one evidence saying that periodontal disease, untreated inflammation, can actually cause heart disease, that was one big, whew, let’s wake up, right, guys? Let’s wake up. And now there’s all of the research happening with Alzheimer’s disease, dementia, and then things that get buzzed, right? Like things like low birth weight babies—prostaglandin synthesis. So I’m eager to see where it continues to go. And I agree with you, Gary. I really hope that the public education continues to increase and that as dentists we’re helping educate our patients that prevention is the cure—not only to their mouth but to so many other diseases throughout their body, right?

Gary Takacs: We now know—we used to have to tap dance around this a little bit scientifically and say there’s a possible connection…

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah.

Gary Takacs: There’s a possible link. Today—and correct me if I’m wrong, you know a lot more about this clinically than I do, Whitney—but we now know that there are five specific systemic issues that could be caused by an infection in the gums: heart disease, stroke, diabetes, preeclampsia, early term birth, and certain cancers—oral squamous cell, and also pancreatic cancer. But we also know emerging data—we have to say there’s a possible link, because we need more research and we need to be more published data—but now we know: Alzheimer’s, dementia, and fertility.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah.

Gary Takacs: So if you have a patient that is of childbearing age and they’re having fertility issues, there could be a possible connection to the health of their gums—to infection in their gums. Am I overstating that, Whitney?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: No, you’re stating it beautifully. And I think that there’s such a great opportunity there if we could link up with our OB-GYN colleagues and primary care medicine doctors and help them better understand that connection as well, so we can be referring back and forth to each other to truly create an ultimate patient care experience.

Gary Takacs: You know, I have a lot of physician friends in my personal friend group, and I’ve talked to a lot of physicians—and many are specialists on the physician side. And I had a physician tell me one time that absolutely blew me out of the water. He said, “Gary, do you know how much dental education we got in my medical school training?”

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Probably about as much as we had in business in dentistry, I’m guessing.

Gary Takacs: And I said, “No, I have no idea.” He said, “It was one one-hour lecture.”

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Wow.

Gary Takacs: And I literally—my chin dropped. Think of all the other things that physicians have to learn, think of their rotations they have to cover. So it really isn’t a mystery. I’ve jokingly said, I think some physicians don’t even know the patient has a mouth.

Gary Takacs: That’s a polite jab, okay. But, you know, I think we need to change that, and we can change it—like literally one connection at a time. We can change that. And I love the idea of networking with our medical colleagues.

Gary Takacs: My favorite book in the scientific side is “Beat the Heart Attack Gene" by Bradley Bale, MD.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yes.

Gary Takacs: I’m seeing you smile. Of course, Whitney and I are seeing each other face to face because we’re on Zoom, but I’m seeing you smile. I love that book. And in the book—Brad Bale’s an MD—and Dr. Bale wrote in the book, and it’s a quote. And I think the quote is so good that I think every listener should do what I’m about to tell you. I think you should have one of your team members who’s good with technology find a source online to print this as a stencil and stencil it at a prominent place inside your office. It’s a saying, and it’s by Bradley Bale, MD.

Gary Takacs: Now, have I intrigued you enough, Whitney, to ask what in the world is that saying that I want?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I mean, I can’t wait. I can’t wait to hear it. Wait, are you ready? I have my Cricut ready.

Gary Takacs: Are you ready? Are you ready? Yes.

“All good health begins with the mouth.” —Brad Bale, MD

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Love it. Mantra.

Gary Takacs: Print that up, stencil it on one of your walls in a prominent place, and watch what happens. Just watch. And it might be just one of those things that a patient reads—hmm—and then they ask you a question: “What does that mean?” And there you go. But isn’t that a great—

Dr. Whitney Weiner: That’s a great tip, Gary. I love it. I was lucky enough to go to the Bale-Doneen Preceptorship about a decade ago, and I learned so much from both of them. And I love what they’re doing for cardiac health awareness.

Gary Takacs: It’s amazing. By the way, if you want to get your team in a general practice—all the doctors and your hygiene department—on the same page, one of the best ways you can do that is read the book together as a book club: Beat the Heart Attack Gene.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Oh yeah.

Gary Takacs: And I want to emphasize that that book is not a scientific text. It’s a lay book. It’s a New York Times bestseller. It’s written for the public, but throughout that book is laced with stories of the oral-systemic connection. And it’s a powerful way to get all of your hygienists on board with the oral-systemic connection and how to talk to patients about concerns you see in their mouth.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I love it. Gary, Whole Dental will now be starting its first book club.

Gary Takacs: I would love to be a guest as you do that on your book club. I love doing book clubs—we can…

Dr. Whitney Weiner: That’d be great!

Gary Takacs: …do that virtually. But I guess I just invited myself to your book club.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I’ll send you a formal invitation. You’re in. I’m all in.

Gary Takacs: I’m all in. Well, the oral-systemic connection and the evidence is moving. I like asking patients, you know, as part of the intake process—let’s say the patient’s name is Maria—

“Maria, we’re going to get to know a lot about your teeth, because that’s why you’re here. But I also want to know more about your overall health and background. And I’d like to ask you some simple questions about your family’s medical history. Maria, is that okay?”

And she says, “Sure.”

This has to do with your blood relatives:

Have any of your relatives experienced heart disease, stroke, diabetes, early births—early term, it’s called preeclampsia—or low birth weight, early deliveries? And cancer?

Now—heart disease, stroke, diabetes, early term birth, cancer—those are the five. Statistically, Whitney, you know this data, but statistically 19 out of 20 people will answer yes to those five questions.

Think about yourself. Any of our listeners—think about yourself. Heart disease, stroke, diabetes…

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I’m a yes.

Gary Takacs: Yeah. Wow. You know what’s interesting?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I love what you’ve done—expanding the medical history and making it a conversational piece. That’s great.

Gary Takacs: Because now they’re thinking about their relatives. I’ll share a personal tidbit of information that I’ve never shared on the podcast. I’m a yes on all five.

I was four-two. I was four pounds, two ounces at birth.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Wow.

Gary Takacs: I was a preemie. Yeah. I have a yes—I don’t have particularly great genetic background.

I’m making up for that with fitness and wellness.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I mean, Gary, I’m staring at about 50 medals behind you. So I think you’re a bit of a phenom here. Let’s be honest.

Gary Takacs: Well, I’m motivated. But I’m impressed.

One of my clients said, “Gary, I got my first no to all five of those questions today.”

Dr. Whitney Weiner:Wow.

Gary Takacs: So—heart disease, stroke, diabetes, early term birth, cancer—no, no, no, no, no.

And then he said, “Gary, the patient stopped and said, ‘Wait a minute, wait a minute. I was adopted at birth. I was answering it in terms of my adopted family, but I don’t know.’”

An interesting background—very interesting. The patient didn’t know and had no knowledge of the medical history of her biological family.

Yeah. I love what you’re doing and love the wisdom that you’re spreading through the oral-systemic connection. We all need to do an even better job of that.

Let me pivot to business for a minute. So, if one location was a good idea, multiple locations is a great idea, right?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Right.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I mean, it’s America—bigger’s better, right?

Gary Takacs: So talk to us about that. Uh, tell me about that. Tell our listeners about that.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Hey, you know, Gary, I have this dream of Whole Dental Wellness being—we’re in Metro Detroit—every 20 minutes you can find a Whole Dental Wellness, and you know you’re going to be treated with love and care there. It’s an honest place where you can go to have, you know, an honest conversation with people who have your wellbeing in mind. So for me, when I started, I just had a vision that I hoped it would be bigger. And people would laugh when they’d say, “Well, how big?” And I’d say, “Well, I’m not sure, but I really have this 20-minute idea in Metro Detroit—maybe eight to ten locations.”

So it started with one. You know, we bought the first location in 2018, and to date, we’ve purchased seven locations. We’ve merged them—or seven practices—we’ve merged them into three locations. But I think that if I were to rewind and really look at it, it’s been an evolution of me going from surgeon to entrepreneur. And I’ve always had entrepreneur, you know, in my DNA—from schlepping burritos on the beach when I was surfing and selling them for a $3 profit to whatever little side hustle was going on. But in the back of my mind, I’ve just always wanted to grow something for impact.

One of our big things is driving impact in Metro Detroit—to the communities that we serve. So I know that’s a bit of a wishy-washy answer because I don’t have this like, you know, BHAG that’s out there saying, “Get to this amount of EBITDA” or “this amount of locations.” But we’ve been growing at the right speed for our team, at the right speed once we have repeatable systems.

And again, a year ago I stopped seeing patients, Gary. So, you know, I was hardcore periodontist for five years, working four to five days a week. I was lecturing nationally, KOL for implant companies, started the first Seattle Study Club, then the second one. And then over the last five years, I’ve tapered that down, where finally a year ago, I said, “You know what? I’m going to put 100% focus on the business,” while still running a study club and being a mentor and helping—really help coach and level up in any space that I can—our doctors, while they continue to inspire me and help me grow in other ways.

Gary Takacs: I’m going to politely disagree with you on the fact that you don’t have a BHAG. You know, from Jim Collins, the author—I’m looking up on my bookshelf—one of my favorite books, Good to Great, introduced that acronym: BHAG—Big Hairy Audacious Goal.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Love the book.

Gary Takacs: You absolutely have a BHAG—but it’s defined differently, correct? It’s defined as impact, not number of offices, not number of locations, not any of that. So you absolutely have a BHAG.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Thank you for clarifying.

Gary Takacs: Now, one of the things that I’ve observed—and this is having had the privilege of working with many, many, many dentists over the years—one of the things I’ve observed is that a lot of times dentists make the mistake of setting the goals too low… and then they achieve them.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I agree.

Gary Takacs: As opposed to setting them boldly and ambitiously. And one of the things I hear—and of course, you and I have had the privilege of spending a lot of time together—and I know where your values are, I know where your heart is. And you talk about impacting others. You know, we talk about numbers, but you talk about impacting—impacting patients, impacting your team members, impacting your community. And I love the leadership position that you take with that.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Thank you.

Gary Takacs: Yes, you do. You can do numbers really well—and we’ll talk about those—but you really bring it to a broader impact. And it’s about changing people’s lives. And I think there’s a leadership lesson there for all of us.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I mean, that’s my dream, Gary, right? I see my patient as our team. And if I’m serving our team, then our team is serving our patients. And watching them grow—and grow in areas where they have so much ability and maybe haven’t had the opportunity—has been one of my greatest joys and one of my great whys.

So for example, you know, the first purchase that we made, which was seven and a half years ago—four of those team members that worked at the front office or were assistants are now in the highest levels of our company. And, you know, they had been—for example, one of our—I don’t want to say them by name, these people I love so dearly—they just never had the opportunity. One of them had been in dentistry for 20 years, answering the phone, you know, was the second—not the office manager—but the second patient care representative.

And these are just wicked smart women who maybe haven’t had someone say, “What do you want to achieve in life? Where do you want to go?” That person is now our Director of Regional Operations. Another one of our team members was working at the front office, and man, was she a wizard with RCM and billing. And so as we gained our second location, third location, I said, “Hey, Devon, like, you love billing. Would you want to do that full time?” She said, “I would love that.”

“Well, why don’t you build our RCM division?”

That’s amazing. Let her run with it. So I think that our strength in our company is seeing people for who they are and saying, “Where do you want to go? Where do your unique talents lie?” And then—why don’t you build it and allow me to support you, versus me building my own system and plugging you into it.

And so when they have that ability to drive and use their own talents to build a system that then they can teach us—and frankly, teach me—that has been one of our greatest successes. And those are the moments when I go home and say, “Wow, we’re doing something right.” Because these people continue to inspire me every day, and I’m honored to be on their team.

Gary Takacs: You’re creating career paths for your team members.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: They’re creating them for themselves. We’re just allowing them the opportunity and the runway.

Gary Takacs: There you go. Better said. Thank you. You know, there are team members in dentistry that feel like—one of the negatives—they don’t feel like they have a career path. You know, they get to a certain point, and that’s it. And you’re answering that in a very real way.

You know, it would be remiss of me not to address it here—HR is challenging today. Can we agree on that?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I can’t not laugh. Post-COVID, HR is a blast, isn’t it, Gary?

Gary Takacs: Yes. It is a challenge. So I’ve gotta ask—and again, you know, we didn’t set any of this up, this is just impromptu—but, uh, any secrets on attracting and keeping the best team members?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Oh, this is such a good one. You know, for us, the best team members come from the best team members. When I look at our team and our leadership team, all of them have either been with the first practice that we acquired and partnered with—because they believe in the vision, they believe in where we’re going—or they’ve been friends of the all-stars. And so when you have an all-star, it’s just like a patient—who are the best patient referrals for your practice? Friends of patients you love, right?

And so I think that when people are truly happy and you get your culture right, they bring in the A players with them. I can’t say that enough—talent attracts talent. And so when people are enjoying their job and you’re giving them those runways to continue, as you said, Gary, to build their career, you know, it’s not a job.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: It’s a career. And that’s one of the things we focus on so much too with growth. You know, the question becomes, “Why do you want to grow so big?” It’s to provide opportunities to others. It’s to say, “You know what? Look at these examples in our company and where they’ve gone.” And that’s just the beginning. We say, you know, we have rock stars and we have shooting stars.

We all need rock stars. To your point, we need that assistant that wants to be an assistant for 30 years and just crush it at her job—or his job or their job. And then we need the shooting stars who are like, “You know what? I started in sterile, now I’m an assistant/front office manager. I’d love to run regional operations. And you know what—maybe I’d actually like to be a trainer and step out from behind the chair.” Or maybe a lead dental assistant who now wants to create a training institute within our company as we continue to expand.

And you can tell I’m getting excited—this is what juices me. I love watching people grow. It’s one of my greatest joys.

Gary Takacs: What a cool analogy of rock stars and shooting stars. Uh, those are powerful takeaways for any of our listeners to start thinking in terms of that mindset.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: And I need to give credit where credit’s due. That comes from my friend Josie Sewell. So we’ve gotta give Josie the credit for that one—but I definitely absorbed that.

Gary Takacs: And Josie’s a mutual friend, so, uh, let’s give Josie some credit for sure. But what a great concept.

Well, I want to pivot. So, full disclosure—you and I are involved in a project together that I’m very, very excited about. Our listeners will know that I’m part of the executive team of ICON Dental Partners, which is a DPO—Dental Partner Organization. I’ve had Ian McNickle, our CEO, on a number of times. Any of you that are interested in learning more about the group dentistry space, go back and search for my interviews with Ian McNickle.

But—you made the decision to join ICON Dental Partners as one of our partner offices. And furthermore, we actually took it further and together, we decided that we had a couple of assignments for you that really fit you like a glove.

One is to become our Chief Growth Officer at ICON Dental Partners. I love that title, by the way.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Me too!

Gary Takacs: That title doesn’t exist all that often in the business world. But you’re the CGO—Chief Growth Officer. And furthermore, you have been appointed as a board member of ICON Dental Partners.

Talk about your decision to join ICON Dental Partners and why you thought that was a good fit.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah, so, thank you, Gary. I’m honored to be your partner. And to date in my business career, joining ICON Dental Partners has been the best decision I’ve ever made.

So, you know, it’s interesting. We talk about, “What was your BHAG? Did you have one?” And I think for me, it’s always about people and leveling up. And this, to me, is almost the capstone in my professional journey—to be in a room with people who inspire me and support me, and who want to grow for the right reason.

So it’s almost laughable because I wasn’t looking for a partner at all. I had no interest in, you know, talking to DSOs. I get emails and calls—I’m not kidding—every two weeks for the last three or four years. You know this. It’s nonstop, you know.

And I’m so proud to be a member of the Dental Entrepreneur Organization.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: I’ve been a member of that group for over seven or eight years. And that’s really where I went to—it’s like my MBA in dentistry, is what I joke about. But that’s where I learned how to be a CEO. And that is really where a lot of these relationships have started from. And I bring that up because it comes back to professional organizations and your why.

So ICON Dental Partners—while I’ve been in the business space through DEO and through Seattle Study Club, really with collaboration and leveling up—I met at the Seattle Study Club, Gary.

Gary Takacs: Yep.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: You know, and it was one of those things where I wasn’t interested at first—until I met the people. And one of those people was you. And I remember so well that lunch that we had, if I could take it back there and talk about that, Gary, too.

So I’m, as I mentioned, the director of a Seattle Study Club, and I was asked by Gary—the CEO of the Seattle Study Club—’cause I’m on their executive advisory board, to attend lunch.

Gary Takacs: And that’s Gary Dickenson—for our listeners…

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah, Gary Dickenson.

Gary Takacs: Love him. We’ve also had Gary on the Thriving Dentist Show, talking about the cool things that are happening with Seattle Study Club. But there’s two Garys in this conversation. One of them is me, and the other is Gary Dickenson.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: And they’re both awesome. Love the Garys. Thank you.

So in this instance, Gary Dickenson said, “Hey, will you attend this lunch?” And I was like, “Oh, I’m not really interested in, you know, the business space of dentistry.” And he’s like, “No, you should go. These are great people.” So I go to the lunch, and I’m there, and there’s this spicy, wonderful woman who comes up behind me—who is Joanne Majors—and I loved her instantly.

She’s like, “Come on, girl, we’re gonna have a great time.” So we go sit down.

And I’ve always been inspired by you, Gary, and your journey—this is Gary Takacs I’m talking about now—and you know, really what you’ve been able to do for the profession in educating and helping up-level practices. And Gary Dickenson’s just an absolute legend in dentistry. And I was hearing about Ian McNickle, but I hadn’t met him yet.

And so we’re sitting at this table—it was what, maybe 15 of us, Gary? Keep me honest.

Gary Takacs: A small group. It was in Key Biscayne, Florida. It was at the annual Seattle Study Club Summit. Just a great setting. And we had a private room in the hotel—small group, wonderful people.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Wonderful people. And so we sat down and I was sitting across from Ian, and there’s a large table, and it was essentially—I’m not going to remember it verbatim—but go around the table, introduce yourself: What are you doing? What are you passionate about? And what do you think about group dentistry?

And so we’re going around the table, and it gets to the corner. And there’s an older male—seasoned, I’ll say—a seasoned male director in the corner. And he goes on a little tangent about how women in dentistry is the problem. Because women are graduating and they want to go into DSOs and not buy practices. And that’s why it’s hard for owners to not sell their practices.

And you know me, Gary—when I get really upset, I get hives up my neck. And my neck is just starting to itch. And Joanne is sitting next to me, who I just met—she’s like, tapping my leg furiously under the table, like, “Come on, drama.”

Gary Takacs: You wanna take this or should I?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: It’s just so funny. And so I’m like sitting there and Ian is giving me these laser eyes, like, “Oh my gosh, this is happening.” And then we wait for the gentleman to finish, and Ian just goes, “Well, I think there’s some pretty badass women at the table here that would disagree with you—as would I. So let’s keep going.”

And I was like, huh—who is this CEO, who’s recruiting dentists, who’s slaying the misogyny here in the room as we go around the table? Yeah. So now I’m all, like, peppered up, and I’m like, “Oh great, this is a great group!”

And we go around and I—I don’t know, Gary, again, keep me honest—I think that I… I didn’t slay the man, but I was like, “Well, as a proud mother of three, who runs this study club and a business, I do think that women can do both. You know, believe it or not, we can do these things.”

Gary Takacs: You did. You did an incredible job.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Thank you, Gary.

Gary Takacs: I was—I was literally biting my lip, you know, to not jump in and, uh, you know, counterpoint. But I didn’t need to, because you did. You did it very diplomatically. You were very polite, but you presented a different perspective.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yes. You know, and it’s okay. Everyone has their own unique perspective. And that’s great. And we’re happy to listen.

And after that lunch, you know, I stuck around. And it was Joanne and Jeremy and Ian and you and I. And I think we talked for three hours. And it was just this honest conversation, and it was light. That was about it. There was no sell. It was just about, “Hey, here’s what we’re doing. This is why we think you’d be a great fit.”

And man—I loved you guys. I do love you guys. But at that point, I was like, “This is a great group of people. And wow—the power in this room, while we strip away the ego and talk about building something better—doctor-centered—for doctors to beat consolidation in our industry.”

I mean, let’s be honest, consolidation is happening. I don’t know the exact statistic, but I believe one in six dentists is in some sort of DSO currently.

Gary Takacs: You’re spot on.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah. One in six, right? We look at other fields like optometry, and those types of things are almost at 90% consolidation. So I hope I’m not offending the listeners, but I do believe consolidation is coming. So as doctors who operate at the highest level of our license, that really care deeply about people—how do we maintain autonomy and gain the power of group?

And so to me, it seemed too good to be true, to be honest with you. I loved the model. It’s complete clinical doctor autonomy, however, wraparound national services from people like you, Gary, who can come in and coach on how to have conversations and help uplevel our practices on the back end. And Joanne with soft skills, and Ashley in HR—I smiled because yesterday I was on four hours of calls with the different ICON team members, and I was so inspired. At the end of it, I literally sat in my chair and just smiled and said, “Man, this is what I’ve been waiting for.”

It started with a biz dev conversation we were on together about how excited we are for the future, and how we have this incredible pipeline of talented doctors who want to join us—and how fast do we want to grow. Then into a conversation with our CEO, Andre Kellogg, who was just talking to me about the psyche of doctors and how we can help people. To Ashley in HR—because Michigan, where I’m at, just launched a new PTO policy.

So in the past, before ICON, I would’ve called my HR attorney, tried to read through all of it together, built out a system, and instead—it was a 30-minute phone call. It was built for me, delivered branded, and then: “Hey, would you like me to push this out to your doctors?” And I just sat there smiling, thinking, this is the difference. This is the power of team, and this is how doctors can regain their sanity back while focusing on what matters—and that’s the patient and their team.

So I had a whole breakthrough last night, and I was like, “Man, best decision I ever made.” I am so thankful to still have complete autonomy on the doctor side, and yet have all of these incredible people supporting me—and not me, but our team.

Gary Takacs: Right. Well, very, very, very well said. And we’re proud to have you as a board member. One of the things I want to emphasize is: we are self-funded. We don’t have any private equity or investors—currently we’re self-funded. And one of the stipulations is we are a doctor-led organization.

And that isn’t just lip service, because in our structure, a majority of board seats will always be held by our partner dentists. And you’re one of our partner dentists, and you occupy that board seat. And the majority will always be held by our partners. So we’re not just doctor-led in lip service and terminology—it’s in structure. It’s in the structure of ICON Dental Partners.

Well, Whitney, thank you so much for sharing that story. I’m thrilled to be working with you in that capacity there. Love everything you bring to the table for what we’re doing together at ICON Dental Partners. And thanks for sharing your story with our listeners.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Oh, of course. It truly has been one of the great joys in my life, and I can’t wait to continue to see where we go. You know, I’m so inspired by our team, and I’m so inspired by how we can continue to grow dentistry together as doctors. And again, we take a Hippocratic Oath for a reason—we want to do right by our patients. And ICON Dental Partners, to me, it’s the infinite game.

You know, we’ve talked about— I know you and I both love to read a lot—and it’s the infinite game.

Gary Takacs: Yes.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: You know, I think DSOs have come in—I’m gonna get on a pedestal for a minute, Gary. Is that okay?

Gary Takacs: Sure.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Uh, you know, I think that there’s been this weaponization of the word "corporate" in dentistry. We hear it in our teams all of the time, and it’s because of quarterly returns coming in, changing things, lack of autonomy, and the ability to really focus on a quarterly return versus annual growth. How are we making the world better by the work that we’re doing versus squeezing all the juice out of the fruit and then discarding it? And I just love that there’s a model in our profession in dentistry that’s different.

Gary Takacs: Hence why you’re our Chief Growth Officer.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: You can tell I’m passionate about it. It’s growth. It comes from the heart.

Gary Takacs: It’s growth for the right reasons. Yes, yes, absolutely. Whitney, as we start to come to the finish line this year, first of all, this has been a blast. Uh, really love your, uh, openness to share your story and your pathway, um, your insights on the oral systemic health, uh, insights on having a big A, BHAG, a big hairy audacious goal, and a big vision, uh, and an abundance mindset. Uh, for sure. Uh, if our listeners wanna get ahold of you, how’s the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Yeah, I would love that. So you can follow me on Instagram. My handle is @thesmilesurgeon. Feel free to send me a message. You know, I actually do check my own messages, so I would love to get in touch, and I really do love connecting with dentists, and I’m here to help you any way that I can.

Gary Takacs: So we’ll put that, we’ll put that link in the show notes. Uh, but again, your Instagram handle is The Smile Surgeon, correct? Just all spelled out.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: All spelled out. The Smile Surgeon. You can search Whitney Weiner, you’ll find me as well.

Gary Takacs: Yeah. Perfect. Um, well, I encourage our listeners to connect with you. Uh, Whitney, you’re a treasure in my life, and you would be for any of our listeners as well.

Dr. Whitney Weiner: Uh, likewise, Gary. Thank you so much for the opportunity. It’s fun. I’d love to come back.

Gary Takacs: Well, stay tuned. A return appearance on The Thriving Dentist Show for sure. Uh, we’ve barely nicked the surface on some of the things we can talk about, for sure. Well, as we come to the finish line here, I wanna take a minute and thank you, Whitney. Thank you for taking time out to share your story, and thanks for all you do for our amazing profession. Um, absolutely love everything you’re doing. Love the ultimate purpose, which is to truly make a difference in the lives of others—whether that be our patients, our team members, our partners, our colleagues. You’re really making a difference in their lives. 

I also wanna take a minute and thank our listeners here at The Thriving Dentist Show. We appreciate each and every one of you. Uh, thanks so much for being a Thriving Dentist Show listener. On that note, let me simply say thank you for the privilege of your time. We look forward to connecting with you on the next Thriving Dentist Show.