How to Grow Your Practice with Sleep & Airway Services in 2025

Gary Takacs: This is The Thriving Dentist Show with Gary Takacs, where we help you develop your ideal dental practice—one that provides personal, professional, and financial satisfaction.

Naren Arulrajah: Hello everyone. Welcome to the 727th episode of The Thriving Dentist Show. This is Naren, your co-host. We have an awesome topic today, but before I get to that, I have two quick announcements to make. We have events coming up on the thrivingdentist.com/events section. You can see all of our events, all of the different educational events that we bring to you. And there’s one almost every week—thrivingdentist.com/events.

But before I get to that, I also have a quick announcement, which is about our marketing tip. I did record one, and the one I recorded is based on a lot of questions you have been sending to me. And the questions that I keep getting are: Do I need to optimize my website for mobile devices?

If you listen to this marketing tip, you would learn everything you need to learn. Here is the marketing tip.

Naren Arulrajah: Welcome to the Thriving Dentist Marketing Tip. This is Naren, your co-host of the podcast and founder, CEO of Ekwa Marketing. The topic I’ll be talking about today is: Do I need to optimize my website for mobile devices? It’s a great question. It’s a great topic. Yes, you absolutely have to optimize your website for mobile devices. Why? Two-thirds of your new patients, if not more, are coming from mobile devices.

You know, most of us today use our smartphones and second, iPads and those types of devices as our primary device when it comes to learning about things, when it comes to doing search. So when we are on these platforms doing search, you want to make sure that you show up. Now, even AI is starting to answer questions—even most people use AI on smartphones. So, when we work, like at Ekwa Marketing, when we talk about search engine optimization, we are not just talking about Google. We are talking about all the platforms and how do you show up on all of them.

Naren Arulrajah: So you want to make sure that you optimize for mobile. Now, if your website is not optimized for mobile—still, Google controls 90% of the search market, so let’s use Google as the placeholder—you won’t show up. Why? Because if Google sends somebody to your website and the website is not easy to use on a mobile device or slow to load on a mobile device, Google knows the person is not going to be happy, and therefore they will stop using Google. So it’s in Google’s interest to only send people to websites that are mobile optimized. So you need to be mobile optimized.

Now, there are tools like Google Lighthouse Code, Google CRUX, that tell you what you need to do to be optimized not only for mobile, but also for desktop. So, pay attention to it. You need to have webmasters who know what they’re doing and who are constantly on top of this.

Naren Arulrajah: You know, we are broken into 14 teams—nine are SEO-focused and five are influence-focused. And one of those teams is the webmaster team. One of the things they pay attention to is to make sure that you’re optimized for mobile devices, and it’s never-ending because Google keeps changing its standards. Why do they do that? Because they make so much money from ads. So if they can kick you out of getting free traffic and ranking for hundreds of keywords, then now you have no choice but to go and give them ad money.

So you have to stay on top of this. You have to stay on top of being optimized for mobile devices. If you want to learn more, book a marketing strategy meeting, and we will do a thorough analysis. Specifically, in your request, say, "I want to see how am I doing on mobile devices."

Naren Arulrajah: We look at your mobile devices and all the other factors that Google considers—from NAP to Lighthouse Core. So we can tell you how you’re doing, how your competition is doing, how many keywords you’re ranking for, and also give you a roadmap—a 12-month plan on: How do I dominate Google?

So if you can do both of those things—know where you stand and get a plan, and then execute on the plan—you’re going to have an unfair advantage. You’re going to be in the top 5% of practices that’s getting 95% of the free traffic. And I totally agree, part of those things is being optimized for mobile devices.

The link to book a marketing strategy meeting is ekwa.com/msm—MSM for Marketing Strategy Meeting. Look forward to being of service. Have a wonderful day. Hope you enjoyed that marketing tip on the topic of: Do you need to optimize your website for mobile devices?

If you have further questions, you can definitely reach out to us—ekwa.com/msm. That’s how you talk to us. That’s how we help you review your marketing.

Gary Takacs: Hey Naren, I have a P.S.A.—a public service announcement—on our events. Many of our listeners know this, but if you’re new to The Thriving Dentist Show, it’s useful for you to know all of our events are provided at no tuition. And we do that as a courtesy to your listenership, so there’s no tuition.

So if you want to get more, go into depth, those are the events. Could be webinars, they could be panel discussions, they could be key experts that we interact with. But there’s a lot of different range there.

And if you want to see what the next one is, just go to thrivingdentist.com/events, and that will show you the next available event. I’d encourage you to check that periodically because we have some very cool guests and panels and discussions that I’m sure you’d be interested in. So come join us.

Naren Arulrajah: Thank you, Gary. Today’s topic is How to Grow Your Practice with Sleep and Air Services in 2025. So, sleep and airway services has been a hot topic. Many of you who have been paying attention to social media, to YouTube, know that more and more people are being diagnosed with sleep apnea.

For example, I myself have sleep apnea, and I’ve had it for several years, and this seems to be one of the most common ailments that many adults suffer from. And good news for you as a dental practice owner—you can do something about it. Not only can this help you grow your practice, but also this is a great way for you to make a difference in something that makes a difference not just in terms of beautiful smiles and oral health, but beyond that, right? The connection between airway and dentistry.

Naren Arulrajah: So, Gary, I’m really looking forward to our conversation today. And if anyone is wondering: How do I attract these patients who are worried about airway services or sleep apnea? You know, again, we can help you. We can target those specific keywords as a marketing company. So those patients who are suffering from this or might have a family member suffering from this and are doing research—you, as a practice owner, now can become part of the solution.

That’s one more way for you to expand your practice and grow your practice. Gary, Air and Sleep dentistry are huge topics right now. From your coaching experience, why do you believe this area has become such an important opportunity for dentists in 2025?

Gary Takacs: You know, you’re absolutely right, Naren. Sleep and airway have moved from being niche—you know, maybe one of those things that a doctor might consider—to becoming essential.

Any of you that have listened to more than one episode of The Thriving Dentist Show know that I’m quite passionate about dentistry. I like to say, "Dentistry rocks." And I like to say dentistry rocks because we have the ability to change people’s lives every day. Maybe it’s something we do clinically for them. Maybe it’s something we do behaviorally. Maybe we just listen to patients in a manner that they’ve never been listened to before. There’s a takeaway for you.

But sometimes, dentistry can be lifesaving. Now, I don’t believe that most dentists got into dentistry with the idea that they’d be saving lives, Naren.

Gary Takacs: Yes. Do you think—I mean, that’s something our ER physician friends do, right? I mean, the ER, right? Or cardiologists do that. You know, but dentistry? No. Yeah, it’s important, but is it lifesaving?

Well, helping someone with sleep and airway could be lifesaving. So if life-changing is cool, what about lifesaving? I think it just elevates cool to the nth degree. You know, you’re actually saving someone’s life.

Dentists above a certain age—I’ll let you define that yourself if you’re a listener—if you’re over a certain age, you were taught that the at-risk group for sleep apnea was likely male, middle-aged and older, heavy to the point of being diagnosed as clinically obese by body mass index, and a big neck like a linebacker.

Gary Takacs: And those certainly are at-risk patients. Everything I just described are possible at-risk characteristics. But today, we now know that your patient with sleep apnea could just as likely be a 28-year-old female, of perfect body proportion. Maybe she’s five foot five, weighs 115 pounds, and has a neck like someone that’s five foot five and 115 pounds would look. And that person’s apneic.

So it doesn’t discriminate. It’s literally—it could be anyone. And the reality is that sleep apnea is life-threatening. What’s actually happening overnight is they’re stopping breathing. And if you’ve ever had the sleep study done, you know how many times you stop breathing overnight. And sadly, it happens countless times—a person stops breathing and they die.

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah. I wanna talk from personal experience, Gary, because I do have sleep apnea. And even though it was very difficult, I somehow got used to using a CPAP. And I know many people, after trying CPAP, give up. I have a cousin with sleep apnea. His daughter happens to be somebody who does sleep studies—that’s her full-time job. And he doesn’t use the CPAP machine. He just can’t use it. He just said, "Forget it," you know?

And so I keep hearing this. Even I went to a—now, I’ll tell you the good news about treating sleep apnea, in my case with CPAP—but it doesn’t matter how you treat it, you feel rested. Like you said, sleep apnea is about—you stop breathing for whatever reason, and then that means there’s not enough oxygen going to your brain. And, you know, that kills your brain’s certain cells and other cells in your body.

Naren Arulrajah: And I feel like not being rested if I don’t wear my CPAP. So sleep apnea is a real thing, and by treating it, you really can see significant benefit—not just a week from now or a year from now, but the same night, the same morning. You feel rested. You feel relaxed.

So I went to this overnight thing my friends and I have been doing for the last two years. You know, we’re all like 50, 51 years old. And there were six people in that Airbnb, and four of us had sleep apnea—meaning snoring, etc., etc. Of course, none of them got diagnosed, so we don’t really know if they have it or not. And none of them are getting treated except for me, right? Except me. And they just are not doing anything about it. So it’s a big problem that is not being addressed properly.

Gary Takacs: That’s common in the population, Naren. And that’s extremely common. And there are many people that don’t fully understand the risk. They don’t really realize what’s happening when you’re having an apneic event. Or they know it, and it’s just denial. They say, “Well, it’ll go away, but I’m not gonna wear the CPAP.”

There is a large segment of the population that have made a conscious decision, knowing the risk, not to wear a CPAP. And that’s why dentistry can provide such a great solution—because there are people looking for a solution to sleep apnea that doesn’t involve a CPAP.

You’re the exception there—and that’s good. By the way, CPAP is fantastic. CPAP has proven to work. It just comes with a lot of challenges for…

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah, it was not easy. I remember I forced myself to do it, you know what I mean? It took me like almost a month of really forcing myself to do it.

Gary Takacs: And how many times did you rip it off your face?

Naren Arulrajah: And I had to go and change different masks—try this, try that. There’s all kinds of things you have to try till you find something where you’re like, "Okay." But once I started using it, I was feeling rested. It was like day and night. I thought me feeling not rested was just—I’m getting old, it is the way it is. I never thought there’s an alternative. Right? Because it’s kind of like that frog-in-the-boiling-pot syndrome. You don’t notice it because it has been happening to you over a long period of time.

Gary Takacs: You say, “Well, I’ve been stressed at work, maybe that’s why I feel tired.”

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly. Exactly.

Gary Takacs: Or, “I’ve been pushing myself. I’ve been working extra hours. That’s why I’m tired.”

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly.

Gary Takacs: You don’t realize that it’s actually a physiological event that’s happening, right? You’re not getting oxygen, and that’s why you’re tired.

Yeah, it’s this… You know, I have to be careful when I use absolutes like "always" and "never," because always and never are rarely the case, right? But I’m gonna go ahead and use it here: All of our clients—all of our clients that have gone down the pathway to add dental solutions to sleep apnea, whether it be appliance therapy or other therapies—all of them have said to me:

"Gary, the one thing I’ve learned in my practice now that we’re doing this—the incidence of sleep apnea in the population is much larger than I ever knew."

Gary Takacs: Larger than I ever knew. Every single dentist in my client base currently that is on the journey to treat sleep apnea is saying that now that our antennae are out and we’re paying attention to it—and we learn how to ask the right questions, which we’re going to get into a little bit here—but all of them have said the incidence in the population… it’s not one of these little stray things that a few people are interested in.

It’s huge. In fact, it’s a majority of the practice population. I know some of you are wrinkling your forehead, saying, "Could that possibly be true?"

Google it. You’ll find out. Yeah, it is true.

Naren Arulrajah: Let me—I’m gonna ask a follow-up question. I know we touched on it when it comes to keywords and key phrases. So two things that become—if I’m a practice owner and I haven’t really leaned into treating airway, or, you know, this whole opportunity of patients with this life-threatening problem that perhaps you as a dentist can help solve—what are some of the keywords, Gary, that come to your mind in terms of keywords that people can try to rank for and try to do well in? 

Gary Takacs: Well they’re obvious. Some are obvious—like snoring, snoring solutions. You know, anything really like, "I snore," you know, those kinds of questions. But I want to give you credit, Naren—and Ekwa, your marketing company—for helping us understand that. Because you and your team went to Google and said, "In your area, what are the keywords and the key phrases that the public is using to search for a dental solution to sleep apnea?"

And it could be different. It could vary geographically. Someone in Phoenix might have one way of looking, where someone in New York might use different words, different phrases. And so the key is to have a marketing partner, a marketing company you work with, that understands how to identify the specific keywords and key phrases.

And it could be key phrases—it may not be a single word. It may be key phrases that then you put into the landing page. So when someone types those in, you’re number one on page one for that matching of keywords and key phrases. It’s that simple—and it’s that complicated at the same time.

Absolutely. I’ll give a simple example. Naren, I don’t believe any of our listeners as dentists would ever use the term "cap" for a crown.

Naren Arulrajah: Right.

Gary Takacs: Most dentists would wrinkle their nose if a patient says, "Hey, do you guys do caps?" Right? Like, what—you want a ball cap? A cap? Do you know?

But the public—they don’t necessarily know. They could search, "dental cap near me."

Naren Arulrajah: Right, right.

Gary Takacs: So it’s important not to be judgmental about what those keywords or key phrases are, because the public uses different language than we use.

Somewhere on our website, there’s a page about crowns, and I think you put in parentheses something like, "people refer to them as caps." There’s a match. If someone searches for "caps," they find us. We don’t use the word "cap," but it doesn’t matter—they find us.

So the key would be having a marketing agency that you work with that has the resources to check in with Google and get the answer for: What are the keywords and key phrases in your area? And then instantly, those will be built into your landing pages. And over time, you’ll earn ranking because of those.

And next thing you know, you’ll be on page one for anyone looking for a dental solution to sleep apnea.

And then—absolutely—now you’re off to the races.

Naren Arulrajah: Absolutely, Gary. And I think to piggyback on what you said—now Google is introducing AI into its search algorithm. So you have something called AI Overview. And some of the questions people are typing in are even something as simple as, "What happens if I don’t treat my sleep apnea?"

Gary Takacs: This is fundamental, Naren, because for a long time, search was just, you know, “dentist near me,” “find a…”

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly.

Gary Takacs: Now Google and other search engines are modifying it to be more helpful. So instead of “plumber near me,” it’s more like, “My sink is leaking, what should I do?”

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly. Or, “We have a pinhole leak—what happens if I don’t treat the pinhole leak in our house?” or “What causes pinhole leaks?” Like, I can get a PhD on pinhole leaks without having to talk to seven people.

Gary Takacs: One of our daughters, Naren—one of our three daughters—is a master at all things YouTube, and she will literally search something like, “Install a new range,” you know, “How do I install a new cooking range in my kitchen?”

Naren Arulrajah:

Gary Takacs: And then—she will do it!

Naren Arulrajah: That’s amazing. It’s amazing.

Gary Takacs: Some people are like that. But that’s how people use search today. It’s much more sophisticated than just “dentist.”

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly.

Gary Takacs: It might be something like, “What are dental solutions to…”

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly! So, I mean, you know, “What’s the impact of not treating sleep apnea?” or “I tried CPAP, I don’t like it. What can I do?”

Gary Takacs: “Should I be concerned I have sleep apnea? Should I be concerned?”

Naren Arulrajah: And then—you show up. If you write an article about CPAP alternatives, Google will pick up your article because you’re close to that person. And in part of their answer, it’ll say, “By the way, dentists can help you if you have sleep apnea and you don’t want a CPAP.” And there is Dr. James Smith at this website who can do that for you.

Now, you are part of the AI answers that Google is giving. It’s fascinating. And of course, like we already mentioned, if anyone wants more in-depth thinking around keywords and how to dominate sleep, CPAP alternatives, this whole space—book a marketing strategy meeting: ekwa.com/msm.

Gary Takacs: And I’ll second that, Naren. And many of our coaching clients are also Ekwa clients. And I see the results that they’re getting with specific patients coming into the practice with a sleep issue.

And this is one of those things where these patients become patients for life. If you solve their sleep apnea, right? They are patients for life—because some of them have the perception that you actually saved their life.

Naren Arulrajah: A hundred percent.

Gary Takacs: A hundred percent. And those patients will walk over hot coals for you because they know what was a possible outcome if they hadn’t met you. So—powerful, powerful stuff.

You know, we might want to pivot, Naren. Many dentists are curious about sleep and airway but don’t know where to start.

Naren Arulrajah: That’s a great, great question, Gary. How would they start? Let’s say there are two camps, right? Some people are already doing this—maybe 10% of our listeners. The other 90% haven’t leaned in yet. Where do they start?

Gary Takacs: Well, I think step one is education. And for those that are already doing it—more education. The reason why more education is important is because it’s not only going to give you the clinical skills to treat this, but it’s going to develop an intangible in your practice that’s critical—and that’s confidence.

Confidence is critical in case acceptance.

Naren Arulrajah: Right.

Gary Takacs: Now, imagine a new patient coming into—let’s say a doctor who’s just getting started with airway and sleep. And the patient says, “Hey, I know I snore. In fact, it’s gotten to the point where we’re in separate bedrooms. I went to a sleep study, they sent me to a sleep physician. The sleep physician recommended a CPAP—and I’m never going to wear it. But I found you, and now I’m here. Can you help me?”

And imagine that the office is early in their journey: “Well, I don’t know… I’ve only taken one course, but I’m going to take more… I think I might be able to…”

That patient is probably running out the door right now. Would you agree with me in that example?

Naren Arulrajah: Absolutely agree. I do agree with you.

Gary Takacs: You need the confidence. You need to be able to say: “Yes, I’m so happy you chose our office. I’ve been through considerable advanced education in diagnosing and treating obstructive sleep apnea with dental solutions. And we’ve got a number of things we can do. I’m interested in learning more about you—but I believe we can help.”

That’s a different approach.

You know, imagine someone wanting to grow cosmetic dentistry and the patient says, “Hey, do you guys do cosmetic dentistry?”

“Yeah, we do a little of that. I’ve been wanting to try this new lab. I haven’t used them yet, but I’ve heard they’re pretty good…”

How are you feeling as a patient with that conversation, Naren?

Naren Arulrajah: You know, I think you hit it right on the head, Gary. I mean, especially something people don’t know.

This kind of comes back to—you’ve taught me this—must-do dentistry versus nice-to-do dentistry. Must-do dentistry usually comes with pain, right? People feel it, so they’re like, “Okay, when can I get it done?” Anything that doesn’t have any immediate pain, they don’t think it’s important.

Gary Takacs: But this is a different pain, Naren. It’s not the pain—like we’re talking about a sensory pain.

Naren Arulrajah: Yes.

Gary Takacs: But it’s maybe the pain of knowing the possible consequence of not treating it.

Naren Arulrajah: And you have to create it, right? You, as the doctor, have to help them understand that. That’s the challenge. Like, in the sense—the consumer doesn’t know it. Like even me—I had sleep apnea probably for five years before I started doing something about it. I thought this is just me getting old and just feeling tired. I gave it 300 other reasons, never connecting the dots. “Oh, it’s because I’m not getting enough oxygen.” And this can be life-threatening. I never connected the dots.

Gary Takacs: You know, and there are some people that—you know—they’ll say, “Hey, I went to one of those sleep centers,” which they shouldn’t call a sleep center, because nobody sleeps in those places.

Naren Arulrajah: I know, I know! And you know what? When they gave me this report saying I slept, I’m like, “I don’t believe this!”

Gary Takacs: Well, and then they sent that to a sleep physician. And then I went for my appointment, the sleep physician confirmed that I have sleep apnea—and recommended a CPAP. And I’m here to tell you, I’m never gonna wear a CPAP.

So the first question—let’s carry that through—the first question out of your mouth should be at that point: “Naren, do you understand the risk?” And then Naren might say, “I completely understand. I understand that I could die—and I’m still not gonna wear a CPAP.”

Gary Takacs: You would be surprised how many times I’ve heard from our clients who are treating sleep apnea—the patient says something like this: “I understand the risk. I understand that I could die. I understand that the CPAP works. And I’m never gonna wear it.”

That’s what some people will say. But if some people say, “I don’t really understand the risk,” then it gives you a chance to educate them about the risk.

But there are many people that are looking for an alternative solution.

So—step one is education. There’s Dr. Steve Carstensen—C-A-R-T-E-N-S-E-N. Google his name: Steve Carstensen. He’s the founder of—I might get the acronym wrong—but it’s an association for dentists treating obstructive sleep apnea and airway issues. It’s a national association.

Gary Takacs: He’s a dentist. Let me be clear—he’s a dentist. We brought him in to do guest courses at Pankey. So it’s treating sleep apnea the Pankey way. Because one of the things we have to be careful about when we’re treating sleep apnea is occlusion. I want to make sure we don’t just solve one problem and create another. So you have to know a lot about occlusion.

But Steve Carstensen would be an absolute guidepost for anyone interested in learning more.

So, step one is education. You can’t take too much. Just look—as you’re planning your CE, take a lot of CE in sleep apnea if you really want to make it a strong part of your practice.

Step two then is learning how to screen. Because you might be thinking, “I think I’ve got a potential patient base here, but I don’t know…”

Naren Arulrajah: Gary.

Gary Takacs: So—start asking your patients.

Naren Arulrajah: Let me throw a curveball, right? I just, again, used Google AI, and it told me 70 million American adults have sleep apnea or some kind of sleep disorder. And it’s also telling me only 10% of them have even been diagnosed—meaning the other 90% never went for a sleep study. They don’t even know they have sleep apnea, even though there’s an 80–90% chance they do have it.

So, first of all, there’s a large group of people who don’t even know. Like I said, I went to this overnight thingy with my friends—you know, we did an Airbnb get-together—and half of them had snoring. Which means more than likely, they probably have sleep apnea. But in their mind, they don’t have a problem. Everything is hunky-dory. Everything is great, right?

Like—so that’s a huge population of people who need help but don’t even know they need help.

Gary Takacs: They don’t even know it. But you can ask some questions, and it should be part of your interview process in your new patient process. You can ask some questions like:

"Has anyone ever told you that you snore?"

Naren Arulrajah: Mm-hmm.

Gary Takacs: “I don’t know. I live by myself, so I don’t know.” That could be an answer from a patient, right?

But more often than not, what they’re gonna say is, “Well, I think I might occasionally…”

Another one: “After what you thought was a good night’s sleep, have you ever felt tired the next day?”

See, you don’t just ask, “Are you ever tired?” because everybody can say yes to that, right?

“Oh, sure, yeah. I was traveling. First night in a new bed. I didn’t sleep well.”

That’s not what I’m getting at. But say: “After what you thought was a good night’s sleep, have you ever experienced a feeling of tiredness the next day?”

What do you think most people are gonna say to that one?

Naren Arulrajah: I think, Gary—at least looking at myself—when I was not getting treated for this, I just thought that’s the way I felt. I thought that’s my normal. I thought that’s my new normal. I couldn’t even relate.

Gary Takacs: "Well, I’m tired all the time."

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah, I’m tired all the time—exactly.

Gary Takacs: Yeah. Well, then you could say, “Well, you know, it could be other factors,” and then you can go deeper.

Any of the sleep training you do—they’ll give you a great list. They’ll give you 10 or 12 questions. They’re unobtrusive. In other words, it’s not like you’re putting the patient under interrogation, right? They’re just comfortable questions.

And most of the time, one question leads to another, and all of a sudden you see the light bulb go off—and they’re thinking, “Huh, I’ve heard about this thing. I wonder if I have it.”

Naren Arulrajah: Mm-hmm.

Gary Takacs: The other thing we find in dental offices—the patients that have been to a sleep center, have gotten the diagnosis, and then they choose not to wear a CPAP, right?

They’re seeking. They already said, “Yeah, I know I have it. I’ve got the results. I have it. And the physician recommended a CPAP—and I’m not gonna wear it.”

That’s almost like the ideal patient for a dental office. Because now, they’re looking for: What do you have in your toolbox?

Naren Arulrajah: Right.

Gary Takacs: What do you have? But learn to ask those questions. They’re very comfortable to ask.

Someone—Dr. Reid—once said, “When you’re talking to patients about treatment, if you have to speak… ask questions.” Right? Normally, what’s the process of a dentist sharing information with the patient?

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah, it’s all like regurgitating information. And the patient is just nodding, “uh-huh, uh-huh.” Nothing is going inside. It’s not active thinking. Ask questions.

Gary Takacs: Learn how to ask—ask questions. Right?

So, screen. Learn. And I would politely suggest that if you’re thinking, “I wonder if there’s interest… I wonder if there’s potential in my practice,” I think you’re going to find through screening that the interest is way larger than you ever imagined.

Naren Arulrajah: I think you’re right. I think probably one-third of your current patients probably need this.

Gary Takacs: Now, the next tip: If you type in ChatGPT—or let’s use Gemini, right? Whatever it is you use—if you type in, “Hey, I want to grow the sleep apnea treatment part of my dental practice,” one of the things they’re going to say is:

Connect with the medical community.

Connect with the medical community.

Now, I’m going to be a little bit outspoken on this, Naren. I’m not shy—you know that.

Yes, that’s a useful process. But do not bang on doors cold. It will not go anywhere. Right? It will not go anywhere.

Instead, start with someone you’re already in relationship with. I think it’s fair to say that every one of our listeners, Naren—every one of them—and that’s a bold statement—has at least one physician, a GP, general practicing physician, in your practice.

Right? Is that safe to say?

Naren Arulrajah: I would think at least half a dozen—for a practice of a thousand patients, I would think… I mean, I don’t have any stats on it, but that’s what my gut is telling me, Gary.

Gary Takacs: Start by talking to your patients who are on the medical side. And see if they can lead you down—maybe it’s something they’re not interested in, but they have a colleague that is. And they could make an introduction.

Naren, I have a client—this is in a different area, treating perio—conservative periodontal therapy. And a physician who was a patient of the practice was a physician at Mayo Clinic.

You know, when I think of really good healthcare organizations, two names come to mind in the U.S.: Mayo Clinic and—

Naren Arulrajah: Cleveland.

Gary Takacs: Cleveland—Cleveland Clinic, right? And depending on where you are in the nation, it’s 1-2, 2-1—whatever.

But this particular patient was a physician—actually an orthopedic surgeon—at Mayo Clinic. And he was being treated for conservative periodontal disease. He was so excited about the results he got in this dental office that he provided a connection for the dentist to physicians at Mayo Clinic.

He connected them to the cardiologists, because they knew infection in the gums can contribute to heart disease. Then to the OB-GYNs, because gum infection can lead to early term birth.

And now—it was by introduction of one of their colleagues, who is also a Mayo physician. Where do you think that went, Naren?

That was an instant connection.

Naren Arulrajah: Yes.

Gary Takacs: So that’s where I would start with the medical side. I wouldn’t do what ChatGPT might say—“Hey, hire a marketing coordinator, have her put gift baskets together, and travel around knocking on doors of GPs in your area.” You’ll be buying a lot of treats, is what you’ll be doing.

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah. Start with the low-hanging fruit. It’s easier to influence someone who’s already your patient and who happens to be a general GP, versus some stranger who doesn’t even know who you are.

And then once you influence them and get them to start referring their patients to you, you can continue to expand that circle.

Of course, you can also start with, like Gary said, your own patient base. Like, 30% of them probably have this need—to have this conversation with you, or you need to have this conversation with them.

Gary Takacs: Well, the stats—you said the latest ChatGPT search said 70 million adults?

Naren Arulrajah: Google also said that. 70 million adults—and only 10% of them are even diagnosed. That means 90% of them—nobody’s even talked to them about this. Or at least, they haven’t.

Gary Takacs: So those numbers, those percentages—they’ll extrapolate to your practice.

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah. 70 million—of the U.S. adult population.

Gary Takacs: So what is that? I mean, I don’t know offhand what the—

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s 340 million Americans. Probably adults are… go ahead—

Gary Takacs: Adults.

Naren Arulrajah: I’m guessing 270, 280 million. I can ask Google again, but I’m just gonna guess for now.

Gary Takacs: So it’s a quarter of the population.

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah—it’s a quarter of the population.

Gary Takacs: And by the way—of that quarter, a very small fraction of them are even aware they have it.

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Well, thank you, Gary. Let me talk about growth. How can Sleep and Airway services actually help a practice grow—both financially and in terms of, like, we talked about patient relationships—where patients don’t just see you as somebody who can only take care of their oral health, but rather their overall health?

Gary Takacs: I’m gonna answer that question by way of an example.

Naren Arulrajah: Okay.

Gary Takacs: I have clients that are very skilled in placing and restoring implants. Many of our clients are. And again, that’s not for everybody, but for those that are really excited about placing and restoring implants, it’s a great way to grow your practice, right?

And often they tell me that they’ve gotten to the point where they can do the All-on-4 procedure—where the patient has a floppy lower denture and they’re frustrated with it, and they’re looking for a more permanent solution. And it would be four or even six implants, depending on the physiology of the patient. And it would be a screw-retained hybrid overdenture. So it’s fixed as far as the patient is concerned. But it’s removable—you can remove it for cleaning or repair.

What many of my clients tell me is that when patients come to their office seeking that, they’re highly motivated, because they’re frustrated with their floppy lower denture. Either they feel lacking in confidence because they’re afraid when they speak, their denture is going to shift around—it’ll make them slur their words, and it might even demonstrate to someone that they’re wearing a denture.

Or someone else might be more blunt: “I can’t eat what I want with this floppy lower denture.”

So—they’re highly motivated. They come to you motivated.

Well, someone that knows they have sleep apnea is highly motivated for a solution.

Now—I’ll leave it up to our listeners to decide how they’d like to pursue this in terms of insurance. But you all know how I feel about insurance, Naren. It shouldn’t be a secret with our listeners.

Naren Arulrajah: Yes.

Gary Takacs: There are some that say, “Well, you could process it through medical insurance, and you could have medical billing and they can help you with that.”

But I’ve also heard from a number of clients that that pathway was a very discouraging one for them.

They were under the impression that sleep apnea treatment would be paid by medical insurance. But when they actually submitted the claims—even had a billing office submit the claims with proper medical billing codes—and they reached out to follow up, there were some people who said:

“We’re a health insurance company. We do not pay dentists. We are not paying you for this.”

So—you may want to choose not to go down the medical billing route. I’ll leave that up to you. Instead, just come up with a fair case fee—whatever that would be. Say, for appliance therapy, a comprehensive case fee. Just like Invisalign has a case fee.

Come up with a case fee. Whatever your costs are, figure that out. Then set a case fee.

And when someone says, “Is this covered by my dental insurance?”

“No, it’s not. Your dental insurance is only meant to cover the most basic things—and this is far from basic.”

“What about my medical insurance?”

“We don’t know. We don’t file medical insurance, because we’re a dental office. We won’t file that. However, maybe you can get your benefits supervisor at work to help you with that. We can provide all the documentation—but we won’t file.”

The way to think about this, Naren—let’s say the patient’s name is George. Or I’ll use you, Naren, since this is something you have.

“Naren, the way to think about this is: this is the fee in our practice. You would pay us at time of service. Think of it as being completely out of pocket—not reimbursed by your insurance. If you do get some reimbursement from your insurance company, think of that as a bonus.”

Now—you know full in. I gave you full disclosure there, didn’t I?

Naren Arulrajah: Yes.

Gary Takacs: And I might even go over it again to make sure. “Now, what did I just say, Naren?”

“Well… I guess I’m paying out of pocket…”

“Right. And I guess I’m probably not going to get a reimbursement. But if I do, that’s like a gift.”

“Yep—you got it.”

Naren Arulrajah: I mean, just to be very frank—putting myself in the shoes of when I went through this—even for me, I think they paid a small amount. I didn’t care. I mean, once I realized the impact of this, I’m like, this goes to the top of my list.

Vacation? Saving your life? Saving your life. Vacation? Okay, I don’t need it.

Gary Takacs: Well, Naren, you’re speaking from personal experience—but that’s exactly what everyone says.

Naren Arulrajah: Yeah. And I think—

Gary Takacs: See this as an option.

Naren Arulrajah: This false premise that people won’t pay for it is nonsense. Once they understand what a big deal this is—this is a no-brainer.

I mean, like I said—buying that new suit? Making sure I live a little bit longer? Not be drained?

Gary Takacs: Don’t need the suit. You know, if you’re not gonna be around, you don’t need the suit.

Naren Arulrajah: Need the suit—exactly.

Gary Takacs: Maybe you take your suit budget and spend it on… spend it on sleep apnea.

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly. Exactly.

Gary Takacs: You know what’s interesting? I’ve said before—and I’ve got to correct myself here—I’ve said:

“People will pay for what they want long before they’ll pay for what they need.”

Naren Arulrajah: Right.

Gary Takacs: And I believe that to be true. Absolutely.

However—this is one of those rare cases that’s both. They need it, and they want it. They know they need it—because they don’t want to die.

Naren Arulrajah: Exactly. Just help them realize it, that’s all. They just don’t realize it. That’s the problem. Somebody can flip the way they think—and all of a sudden, it’s a must-have.

Gary, as we bring this to a close, I do have one other question for you.

For a dentist who’s listening right now and thinking, “You know what? I get it. This is awesome. I can really expand my practice. One-fourth of my adult patients need it. And there’s this huge world out there where only 10% are being treated right now—which means 90% need a solution.”

This is exciting, but at the same time, a bit overwhelming.

What’s your advice, Gary, to get started without feeling lost or stretched too thin?

Gary Takacs: Well, there are some great places for intro courses to sleep apnea. But I’m gonna give you some motivation on this, Naren—and I’m gonna take this down a little bit of a different pathway here.

Providing clinical dentistry is hard work. Clinical dentistry is hard work. Can we agree on that, Naren?

Naren Arulrajah: Absolutely.

Gary Takacs: I think all of our listeners—if they’re driving and listening—they’re nodding their heads, yes.

And there’s a lot of physical issues that come up with working chairside for 30 years, 35 years. Right?

Standing at the chair, doing what we think of as traditional everyday general dentistry—it’s elbows, it’s shoulders, it’s hips, it’s wrists.

But—treating sleep apnea can be a career-extending opportunity. Because it’s much less physical.

Am I making sense, Naren?

Naren Arulrajah: Yes. Yes.

Gary Takacs: And you can choose to go as deep as you want.

Many offices stop at providing appliance therapy—and that can be a wonderful solution for many of your patients. But there are all kinds of avenues to go way deeper if you like.

I have a number of clients that—as they matured in their practice—they chose to be the dentist that treats sleep apnea in their practice. And that’s all they did.

They found it to be less physically demanding, and extremely rewarding, because of the difference they were making in these patients’ lives.

So maybe some of you need to think about this as: This is something mid- and late-career you may want to consider… —to save wear and tear on your body.

And that might be a really good motivation to take a deep dive into sleep apnea.

Naren Arulrajah: Gary, I love how you make something that feels complex sound so achievable. And that’s really the point.

Growth doesn’t happen by accident—whether it’s airway and sleep, team performance, or practice profitability. Success starts with having a clear plan and the right guidance to follow it through.

If you’re a practice owner listening right now and you’re ready to take the next step—maybe you want to expand your services, grow your leadership, or get a more balanced life—either way or in any one of those situations, I would highly recommend scheduling a Coaching Strategy Meeting with Gary.

This is a 60-minute personalized session with Gary, where he helps you identify your biggest challenges and opportunities, and clarify a 90-day roadmap.

So I strongly recommend this. The link to book a coaching strategy meeting is: thrivingdentist.com/csm

Gary, would you be open to doing some of these meetings?

Gary Takacs: I sure would. You know, one of the core components of a thriving practice is you’re doing more of the dentistry you enjoy—whatever that is.

I’ve often said dentistry comes in a whole variety of flavors. What one dentist loves, another dentist doesn’t like. Find the stuff you like.

It may be that we’re piquing the interest of our listeners to peek under the tent at sleep apnea—and you may discover, “Wait a minute, this is something that just absolutely tickles me.” You might think, “I’d love to take thousands of hours of CE and incorporate this into my practice.”

But it is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a high-value service. It’s high value.

When you look at productivity—let’s do numbers for a minute—productivity per unit of time, it’s highly profitable. Right? Highly profitable.

But maybe even more important than that is the impact you’re making on your patients’ lives.

Gary Takacs: When you are changing your patients’ lives—possibly saving your patients’ lives—you’re developing a practice full of passionate people who will do anything they can to help you and support your practice.

So this is something that I think fits on all counts. And if you’re interested—great. If it’s something that doesn’t interest you? That’s okay too. Let’s find something else.

Maybe it’s cosmetic dentistry. Maybe it’s treating TMD/TMJ.

You know what’s interesting about TMD and TMJ, Naren? It’s a polarizing service. What I find to be a polarizing, high-value service.

I can think of a very good colleague of mine—Paul Henny. Some of you know Paul. He’s been on the podcast many, many times. Go search “Paul Henny—H-E-N-N-Y” and you’ll find those past episodes.

He absolutely loves helping his patients with TMD and TMJ disorders. Another dentist—who doesn’t have that same education, doesn’t have the same passion—might say, “Nah, that’s not for me.”

That’s okay. That’s what makes dentistry so cool.

But I would suggest—it’s worth a peek under the tent to look at sleep and airway, for sure.

Naren Arulrajah: Thank you, Gary. I learned a lot. This is an awesome topic: How to Grow Your Practice with Sleep and Airway Services in 2025.

Don’t forget to talk to Gary if he can be of help. And if he can help you with marketing, definitely book that marketing strategy meeting.

I also want to take a minute to thank our listeners—we can’t do what we do here without you.

If you loved this episode, share it with your friends and/or write a review for us. We would be very, very much appreciative.

Until we meet again next time—have a wonderful week ahead.